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—The Difference Between the Family & the Churches!

DO 2768

(Dad talking to the Family:)

1. Well‚ here I am! I'm still going! But the main thing is I got you going! I'm not doing it. I don't have a great big church. I don't preach to thousands or millions. Really I do‚ through you! We are preaching to millions‚ & we've won millions of souls! But I didn't do it! The Lord did it!—Through you, through others, through our Family!

2. I had learned enough about the mistakes of other preachers that I was determined to hook this wagon to a Star & make sure you're hitched on to Jesus, & then I knew you couldn't fail. And our Family has just exploded all over the World!—Preached to billions & won millions to the Lord! Isn't that wonderful? It's terrific! You oughta get excited about it!

3. Thank God I never built a church building! I did build a church building once upon a time in Arizona, but I mean since I've come into my real ministry in the Lord's Work of witnessing & soul winning. I never built a building, I never built a big TV ministry, never built a great congregation of thousands in one building & all that kind of stuff. But I've had a great congregation through you‚ our Family! I've literally preached to millions. But it's been the Lord, & it's been you.—Not me personally.

4. I was determined not to build a cult of the personality. Some people still call it that anyhow & say, "It's a cult of the personality built around this guy." Well, they can call it that if they want to‚ but I've taught you how to love the Lord, & to love others & want to win souls!—And you're the ones who are doing it, not me! Right? (Fam: Amen!) I just got other people to do the job.

5. I'm a recruiter, like an army recruiter, & I've persuaded others! I volunteered for the mission field myself & the churches wouldn't let me go. So what did I do?—I recruited thousands of soldiers for the Army to win the battles for the Lord! And they're doing it! They're doing it because I encouraged them to go & helped to make it possible. So it's a great ministry, thank the Lord, but it's not built around a big church building or personality, it's built around Jesus! Praise the Lord! Amen!

6. I know a lot of people love me & they're always giving me the credit for it, & I always tell them, "Thank the Lord! Thank Jesus!—Not me!"—Because it's the Lord. The Lord did it & so far I don't think I've failed the Lord. I'm getting old & I have had afflictions, & the Family has to pray for me, but you're still going on! I can go on to be with the Lord & our Work would still go on!

The Churches Condemn Us for Our Sexual Freedom

7. Of course, the churches condemn us, & one of the main things they condemn us for, is for being so sexy! We believe in having freedom of sex & love, & the Lord has blessed it! Praise the Lord? Amen! But the Church & the World both have condemned us for our sexual freedom.They condemn sex. It's so ridiculous, because God created it! So we've had sexual freedom & the World has condemned us for it. But I think the Lord allowed that to make sure we stayed separate from the churches & not entangled again in that yoke of bondage.—Otherwise there might have been a temptation to be drawn back into a contaminated, polluted System that the Lord wants to make sure we stay out of! But because of our disreputable reputation, they haven't wanted to have anything to do with us, & we should be very thankful for that.

8. Sometimes I've been tempted to be sorry that we made our Letters & pictures so sexy‚ because that's what our enemies hate & try to use against us. But I wasn't trying to appeal to the World, I was just telling the truth to our people, that's all, & trying to liberate them, free them, make them happy to know that sex between consenting adults is all right & it's OK for them to have sex. But boy oh boy, the Church really hates that!

9. To the churches, sex is evil‚ sex is horrible! Look at the lengths to which the Catholic church has gone to condemn sex, to where they even condemn marriage for their priests! And as a result they've got a whole bunch of Sodomites as priests bothering little boys & all kinds of perversions! So I think our approach of having sex has been much better, freer & had better results, good fruits. Look at all the fruit we've had! My goodness, we've got so many little children! I think that's good! Now our ministry is a tremendous ministry to children with lots of schools etc., & they're growing up to be real witnesses for the Lord! Isn't that wonderful? Praise the Lord!

Soul-Winning—The Greatest Ministry!

10. Praise God, I think we're still on the right track! Don't you?—Still preaching & teaching the right things! And it's all Jesus! Praise the Lord! I've tried to keep people's attention & minds focused on the Lord & His Work & doing His Will & witnessing & winning souls. To me, that's the greatest. I don't think even healing is as great. I never had the gift of healing or a great healing ministry, but what could be greater than winning millions of souls to the Lord? What's greater than witnessing to billions? We've witnessed to billions‚ till nearly the whole World has heard about us! We've won millions to the Lord, & what's better than that?

11. Our Family has won to the Lord almost 15 million souls! What's better than that?—To have a miracle ministry?—A healing ministry? We've stayed on the right track & put people's minds on what they ought to do, & I think they've done it, & they've won millions to the Lord! Praise the Lord! And who knows? If the Lord can trust us, perhaps we will even also have a ministry of healing to the World as the End gets closer, as a sign to them to help them believe!

Mother's Salvation & Healing

—The Result of a Tract!

(Later, talking with Mama:)

12. My Mother's Salvation got started because of a little tract by A. B. Simpson, the founder of the Christian & Missionary Alliance, who was very strong on healing. It was handed to my Dad on the elevator in a Seventh Day Adventist Hospital. (Maria: That's how her Salvation got started?) Yes‚ her Salvation‚ her healing, everything!

13. My Dad put it away for two or three years, then one day when he was pulling out a book, it just fell on his desk! It was the Lord‚ of course. The tract was about the Lord's healing for today. He didn't believe that, so he immediately began studying up on it. He said, "I've got to prove that healing is not for today!" And of course he was an honest Swede & he went through the Bible & became convinced that it was for today.—And that's when he began praying for my Mother!

14. He saw that it said to "call for the elders of the church" (Jam.5:14), so he called for the other pastors of the town. He decided they must be the elders of the churches—each pastor of each church of this little town—& he had them all come in & lay hands on her together & pray for her! (Maria: How many of those pastors believed in healing?) Well, I think it was my father, the Baptist preacher & the Methodist preacher, about three of them. They didn't know much about it, but they believed that the Bible described it, & they claimed the verse about "call for the elders of the church, anointing with oil in the Name of the Lord" etc. There was one man in town—I think it was the Presbyterian—who was bitterly against it & preached against it. He said, "These fools! The days of miracles is past!" The Enemy has always got his mouthpieces.

Jack Coe

15. Jack Coe, who was a healing evangelist, became paralysed when he was still quite young. He was in his 40's, & he'd gotten his wife to promise him that she would never take him to a hospital, but she finally broke down & took him there anyway, where he died. It seemed like quite a defeat because a lot of people's faith was hurt by it. Jesus had that happen to Him.—They killed Him. (Maria: Yes, He raised people to life & healed people, & yet He couldn't prevent Himself from being killed.) "Physician, heal Thyself. He saved others, Himself He could not save."—Luk. 4:23; Mat.27:42. But then He had a greater victory in rising from the dead!

16. (Maria: I guess maybe in Jack Coe's case the Lord wanted people to see that it wasn't Jack Coe who was doing the healing, it was the Lord.) He was real rough about his attacks on his...I started to say his victims, ha! He'd pounce on them & all kinds of things. (Maria: Yes, I heard one man was so crippled that he was completely bent over, looking down at the ground, & Jack Coe stood behind him‚ put his knee on the guy's back, took ahold of his shoulders & went "crack" with one huge sudden pull up on him! Everybody in the auditorium was deathly quiet! They heard all these bones crack, like he'd broken the guy's back!

17. (Jack Coe said all of a sudden fear gripped him & he thought, "My God‚ what have I done?" And he said, "I just had to rebuke the fear right then, & I did, & I turned around & the man was standing up straight & he lifted his arms up & everybody saw he was all right!" And he later asked the man, "Did that hurt? Were you in pain when I did that? What did you feel?" And he said, "No, I didn't feel anything." The Lord had done a complete operation on his back, just straightened him up, & he hadn't even felt it. But everybody in the auditorium had heard this terrible cracking like all his bones were breaking!)

Building Mania!

18. There have been many famous healing evangelists, such as Dowie, Wigglesworth, Branham‚ Jack Coe, A. A. Allen, Kathryn Kuhlman, Aimee Semple McPherson & Oral Roberts. They were great‚ famous, sensational, built great temples, huge tabernacles, had thousands of members, preached to thousands of people at a time.

19. Dowie began in Scotland, then he went to Australia. It took him six months to get there by boat with his family. And there he began to manifest his gifts of healing, he built a great tabernacle & people came by the thousands. I think he went back to Britain then & had a tremendous ministry. He even ran for Parliament but was defeated, & that was a great disappointment to him.

20. But then he went to the U.S. & had a tremendous healing ministry with huge crowds. He finally decided he should start this town, a completely Christian town, nobody but Christians—Zion City, Illinois! (Maria: Did it work?) Well, it seems like he got into building. He was more interested in making this town work, & his healing ministry declined.

21. And by & by he thought he was Elijah & wore robes. He looked like the Prophet Elijah. Well‚ who knows, maybe he had the spirit of Elijah? You know? (Maria: Yes‚ but maybe the town wasn't of the Lord because it's like getting all the Christians bunched up together in a church, & then they can't do as much good.) Yes‚ like Jimmy Bakker & his hotel & theme park & all that sort of thing.

22. So many men of God have been sidetracked into the building mania, it's pitiful! Even Aimee was. They all built their big tabernacles. Paul Rader built the Rader Tabernacle, a huge big thing in Los Angeles. That's the church that invited me to drive the school bus first & then teach school. At that time it was called something different, Evangelistic Temple‚ or something like that.

23. (Maria: Did Raymond Richie have a tabernacle too?) Oh, yes, a huge big temple in Houston that held thousands of people! Nearly all of them went for some kind of big temple or tabernacle, but very few of them left lasting works to speak of.

24. (Maria: I guess Billy Graham never established a big temple, did he?) No, but he established a big college somewhere in the U.S., where he lives. Oral Roberts used to have a huge television ministry, & then his Bible College & hospital in Oklahoma. (Maria: Yes, I guess that's more the type of thing that's en vogue today, a university or college. Even Pat Robertson's "700 Club" has a university.)

25. Remember Charles E. Fuller who was so popular on radio & at Long Beach? I went to see & hear him several times. He used to have the Fuller Seminary in Pasadena. (Maria: And Bob Jones had a university.) Yes, Bob Jones had Bob Jones University. Nearly all of them established some kind of a building—tabernacle, temple, college, hospital, something—which I think they figured was going to perpetuate their ministry, something solid that they could leave behind as a memorial.

26. I think we're the only outfit that ever refused to have any buildings, or even any large congregation.—The only outfit that has emphasised only witnessing, soul-winning, missionary work, & has, as a result, probably won more souls in proportion to our size than any one of them! Remember, we've won millions—I think it's nearly 15 million now—& witnessed to billions! And look what we're doing in Eastern Europe & Russia!

We're Built on Publications!

27. We're just about the only religious group ever built just on literature‚ & just on preaching by mail only! We have no building, no huge headquarters. Most of them have got huge headquarters, like the Alliance, & they've got several colleges.

28. We have no huge building‚ headquarters, temples or churches! (Maria: Or radio or TV.) No, just, you might say, a mail order religion. Our whole organisation is built on publications alone & organising an army to win souls to the Lord, strictly a soul-winning missionary organisation.—Supported by the Lord, by faith, & led by the Letters, inspiration!

Go to the Cities!

29. (Maria: There are some missionary organisations, like the New Tribes Missions, for example, that go into all the World & don't have huge buildings. They do have a headquarters‚ however, it seems a shame that they waste so much of their time, years in fact, going into the jungles trying to learn the languages & translate the Bible into them‚ when they could be winning nationals of those countries who could much more easily reach their own tribes. Like Wycliffe Missions & New Tribes & other missionary organisations.) Yes, & frankly, I think they get rather bogged down.

30. I agree with Fred's doctrine on that, to go into the cities & preach your message to the intellectuals who speak your language & who can then go to their own in their own language. Let them go into the country & into the boonies, or win souls that can, instead of wasting your time trying to learn the language! The Alliance operate a lot like New Tribes, they go in & spend years learning the native languages & culture, then more years translating the New Testament or Gospels into that language. It's the type of ministry that takes forever.

31. Of course, the Alliance were very good people who really loved the Lord & souls & believed in the Holy Spirit & healing & real Salvation—they still do! They have about 2,000 missionaries yet. Of course‚ they've done that in about 150 years. We've got almost 10,000 missionaries & we've done that in only 20 years! Imagine what we'd be if we'd had 150 years! Even our babies are missionaries too because they're part of our sample that wins souls to Jesus!

Pat Robertson's Ministry

32. (Maria: Pat Robertson with his "700 Club" being televised in almost 50 countries all over the World has probably won millions!) Yes‚ it's a tremendous missionary work through television. (Maria: But he's just one person & one little tiny organisation doing all of that because he's able to be on TV.) But he's never organised what you might call a denomination, a worldwide network of people who are giving their full time to nothing but witnessing & winning souls & follow up like we are.

33. When he's gone, there's not going to be too much left of his ministry, because he didn't train his people. (Maria: He has a Bible University, but what's that going to do?) They all wind up preachers. I'm sorry, I don't care too much for that sort of thing. (To Fred:) Amen, Fred, I'm carrying on your ministry! I'm doing what you always dreamed of doing, thank You Lord! I'll bet Fred's proud of me!

Pioneers of Communal Living!

34. (Maria: We have a couple of other things about our ministry that are rather unusual‚ if not unique.) Our belief that God has given us sexual freedom, for one thing, ha!—For which we are notorious. (Maria: Oh‚ that wasn't one of the ones I was thinking of, but that's a good one.) It's one of the things that's made us famous & gotten us tremendous publicity! We didn't intend it that way, but it was the Lord's intention, obviously! (Maria: It certainly has influenced some of the World for good. But more than that, our ministry of telling people about the Endtime with the Posters has probably been one of the biggest ones too! We couldn't have helped but make a very big impact worldwide with all of our millions of Posters!

35. (And part of our ministry & example has also been our lifestyle of living together communally. Who else does that?) Yes, who does it? (Maria: They can't! Even New Tribes & other missionaries who have to get together for the Work's sake, they crumble, they mess up, because they can't make the sacrifice that's involved in a whole bunch of people living together & submitting to each other.)

36. What other great evangelistic or missionary movement has no churches, no halls & lives communally only in homes? What groups of Christians do you know of? There are a very few scattered individual communal homes, but what worldwide missionary organisation lives communally, pooling their resources to invest in fulltime missionary work? (Mama: Well, there are a few who live communally, like the Hutterites, though I think each family has their own dwelling. But they certainly aren't a worldwide missionary organisation!—They hardly even go off their farms, let alone out into all the World to preach the Gospel! One article I remember said they reject active missionary work because they feel that that's God's job which He does in His Own time & in His Own way. The article did say, though, that they don't get into building church buildings, but that they have their services in their big dining halls or schools. So they're the main ones that I can think of that live communally.) And there may be some mission stations that sort of live communally. (Maria: Yes, like they try to do in New Tribes, but it doesn't usually work very well, as you saw in that documentary.)

37. I can remember when the Alliance was saying that they had more trouble amongst their missionaries on the foreign field than they had with the people! There was jealousy, infighting & all kinds of problems. And they don't even live communally except in very rare mission stations & exceptions. (Maria: You can understand their problems. If our people hadn't started doing it at the ages of 16‚ 17 & 18 when they were new bottles & pliable & moldable & able to grow up with that way of life‚ I don't think they could have done it either!)

38. And in a generation when that was popular—the hippies! They were accustomed to it. It was nothing new or rare in the hippy culture, it was the norm. So they transferred readily into a communal culture which had a real basis, the foundation of the Lord, & tremendous cause & ministry, to evangelise the World! They had a purpose & an inspiration for sacrifice & communal living. (Maria: Yes, & it's really a sacrifice! Still, after 20 years, it's rough going! They're still learning to do it. They're still learning to submit to each other, take care of each others' children, discipline each others' children & share their possessions with each other.)

39. It's supernatural! It's miraculous that we have survived that way & it worked! It's just the Lord! (Maria: So it's like the Lord's example. We're the forerunners of the Lord's people, who are having to learn to do it in advance of the others.) That's what I've always said.—We're the pioneers of the way they're going to have to live in the Endtime. (Maria: Yes, & in the Millennium & all the way.) And their churches will be closed & locked, along with their hymn books, & their pastors liquidated! (Maria: Yes! Right now if you'd tell any other Christians to do it, not only would they not want to, but they wouldn't be able to. They just couldn't! The idea is so foreign to them & they're so unused to submitting to each other & yielding & being unselfish & sharing, that I don't think they could! Poor Christians!)

40. I broached that question once to one of my brothers-in-law, a Methodist pastor married to one of Eve's sisters.—One of the most sincere, sweet, humble men that I believe was genuinely real & truly endeavouring to serve the Lord the best he could. He had a Methodist church in Kentucky of about 600 members & I asked him once, "What do you think would happen to your church if they came along & locked it up some day & took you prisoner? What do you think would happen to your people? How many of your congregation do you think would really last, carry on, & try to survive by perhaps meeting in their homes & that sort of thing?" He thought awhile, seriously, & he said, "Oh‚ I think maybe about 60."—One out of ten! (Maria: Yes, that sounds about right.)

41. (Maria: But if you'd make them not only meet together but live together, there would probably be a lot less than that to survive!) Oh yes! (Maria: It's one thing to meet a couple of times a week in somebody's home, but what if you got'm all together & said, "OK, serve the Lord all together in this one place day-in & day–out, live together!") Serve the Lord fulltime! (Maria: I mean it's hard!) We are unique, that's for sure!

42. (Maria: It's a good thing you started us doing that when we were really young, because after you've gone so many years living on your own, it's really difficult to change. What System Christians could move in together & ever be able to share the same bathroom! They can't show any flesh, you know, they couldn't dress in front of each other when obligated to share the same room upon occasion, etc. In crowded conditions you're almost not exempt from anything—even people walking in on you when you're making love!) And when necessary, to share everything, including your husbands & wives‚ that's even more shocking! (Maria: Yes! And share the care of your children.)

43. The Fundamentalist Mormons who were kicked out of the official church & practice polygamy, they do live in large agricultural communities. They call them communes, but actually each family has its own home. (Maria: Like each flesh family has its own home.) Yes, big homes. There are maybe two or three wives, but each of the wives has her own quarters & her own children in that home, & in some ways lives separately even though they have one husband over all. So that's a big difference.

44. So praise the Lord! We're pretty unusual, I must admit! It was Fred's dream to begin with, only I've carried it on & fulfilled it!—The Lord has‚ through me & us!

45. These great healing evangelists, though they had wonderful works, where is their work now? What permanent organisation or work did they leave outside of buildings? Hardly any of them have lasting works.

46. (Maria: Yes, & most of those healing evangelists didn't attempt to pass on their gifts & their ministry to others. One book I had someone read for me not too long ago was by an Australian healing evangelist‚ Stewart Gramenz, who had been a healing evangelist in India. But he trains groups of Christians, both Indian nationals & Westerners‚ to do the same job. He just teaches them about healing from the Word & teaches them to do the same thing. And his book was very very good, on how to heal the sick. He's trying to teach people that it doesn't have to be one personality going out there & doing it, but you can do it if you just believe what the Lord says in the Word. It's probably what these other healing evangelists should have done. Instead of just being set up as some big personality that was the only one that could do it, they should have taught other people about healing.)

The Indigenous Church!

47. Well, I don't know of any other church in the whole World that is just like us, of course, ha! We have several distinguishing features! The one the World & the church know most about, of course, & emphasise the most, is our sexual freedom. But of course what they don't accept or emphasise at all is that we preach real Salvation, genuine Pentecost, & real witnessing & soul-winning & worldwide missionary work! You hardly ever hear them talking about those things, they're always talking about the "evils of the way we live, the promiscuity, too much sexual freedom!" etc.

48. Now they're trying to bring out that it's a bad influence on our children! They've been trying to use it against us now for years.—Viciously! But in spite of all enmity & opposition & persecution, the Lord has blessed us, has prospered us, & we're still carrying on & doing better every year! (Maria: Oh, yes! Thank You Lord!) It's a miracle! Thank You Lord!

49. We preach & we have practiced the indigenous church! Fred preached it, but he never quite got it going. We're self-propagating, self-supporting & self-governing! That's been the ideal of our Homes & they live it, practice it, & that's what has kept us going!

50. Just think, A.B. Simpson finally had to organise a whole denomination of churches to support the missionary work that he wanted to do. See, that's the difference. His missionaries were supposed to be living by faith‚ but actually they were supported by pledges from the churches. In fact, they weren't allowed to go to the field unless they had enough pledges to support them. The only faith they needed was that the people would keep their pledges.

51. It was a very good system, though built on the church system. It was a church with its major emphasis on missions‚ which is good!—Better than most churches! But I think we've gone beyond that. We haven't wasted time building churches & having church buildings & church organisations & everything to support our missionaries. We have sent them out by faith on their own, just with the Lord, to live communally together in Homes—not churches, no church buildings—& we're self-supporting, self-propagating & self-governing! I mean, we have really done it!

A Glorious Harvest of Children!

52. (Maria: And having all the babies we can! That's a little unusual too, nowadays.) Yes! We've had so many children we've had to organise schools! (Maria: Yes, worldwide! We're unique in that. Well, maybe not unique, but we're rare in that today, because people worldwide have stopped having so many children. They don't think of it as something that's good or wise to do.—With the exception probably of the fundamentalist Mormons & a few other rare groups. So we're pretty rare in that respect.)

53. And that's partly due to our sexual emphasis. We've emphasised sex. As the Methodist said, "We believe in backsliding & we practice it too!"—"We believe in sex & we practice it too!"—And we've been very fruitful! Praise the Lord! We're almost like the Catholics in that regard, except they only preach it & have their parishioners practice it, not their priests.

54. (Maria: But even today, in most places the Catholics are not having the very large families that they used to have even 20 or 30 years ago. Nowadays they aren't having the number of kids that they used to have. When I was about 16 in Arizona & babysitting down the street, I was amazed at this woman with all these kids, & she turned out to be a Catholic. The Catholics were still having kids then‚ it wasn't very rare when I was 16. But now they're not having that kind of families any more‚ especially in the First World countries, & even in many of the Third World countries where there has been such a promotion of birth control.) In those days they preached it & practiced it too.

55. Well, we preached it & practiced it too, & as a result we have a glorious harvest of children to raise in the Lord & His Service! They've been a great asset. I told you that one day our children would be our greatest asset, the proof of the pudding‚ & that's what they are! That's probably one reason the System is so angry about us. The Devil is trying to promote the lie that it's not good & we don't raise good kids‚ & we're a bad influence on them & all of that baloney‚ but he can't win, praise God! "The Prince of Darkness grim—we tremble not for him! His rage we can endure, for lo, his doom is sure; one little word shall fell him!"

We're Everything All Rolled Up into One!

56. (Maria: We probably put more responsibility on our people than any other group in the whole World‚ because we require them to be not only a Home, but a church, a school, a business, a hospital if they need one...) And a mission station. (Maria: Yes, practically everything all rolled up into one!) Self-contained, independent. (Maria: It's a big responsibility on them.) It is! (Maria: But they're surviving! It's difficult, but the Lord's helping them.) It's the Lord! (Maria: The Lord is going to really reward them for their sacrifices by making them into great leaders who will have learned the maturity & responsibility to properly care for the Lord's Kingdom.)

57. I don't think even Fred had any idea of how far we were going to go with his initial idea. His idea of "Church in the Home" simply meant that a group of homes, so to speak, would have their own services in their homes.—They'd join together in one home for church in the home without building a building, but they would still live their independent lives & have their own jobs & their own homes & that sort of thing. He had no idea of the communal home that I know of. But it worked! The Lord made it work & we've got the proof & the fruits of it around the World, thank the Lord!

58. Hallelujah! Thank You Lord for answering prayer & for giving us the faith to try!—And giving our Family the faith to do it. Thank You Jesus! Bless them & keep them now throughout the World, where it's day & it's night, & where some are sleeping & others are working. The sun never sets on Thy Family! Thank You Jesus! Praise the Lord! Do bless & keep them & strengthen them, protect & provide for them, & thank You for how You have, & have made them fruitful & a blessing.—In Jesus' name! Amen, Lord! Thank You Lord!

59. In a sense we've evangelised the World by mail.—Not exactly‚ but we fed His sheep & organised them & inspired them & led them to do the evangelising, & they've done it! Thank You Lord!

60. Right now we've got about all we can handle just with our children, & we've got to take care of them & rear them accordingly. (Maria: But even in the process of taking care of our kids, which we could do fulltime, the Lord doesn't allow us to get away from our evangelism & our ministry to outsiders. He puts the pressure on through our having to support ourselves, therefore we're forced to get the Word out & evangelise! The Lord still gets the outside work done too.) We're still winning souls, thank the Lord‚ & kings & supporters. Praise the Lord! And our materials are doing it, too! Thank the Lord!

—Are you?