KEYWORDS: heaven, lord, people, well, god

Our Heavenly City?

David Berg

DFO 154621/6/83

1. WE GOT A LOT MORE IDEAS FOR HEAVENLY PICTURES TODAY WITH ALL YOUR SUGGESTIONS COMING IN! It's going to take a book! We're going to try to add as much as we can of some of the things you suggested, such as more little children, animals, birds & butterflies, but we can't exactly get everything in one picture! Somebody even wanted to know if we were going to have a toilet, but that's one mundane article I don't think we'll need! We're not going to be that human! I doubt it‚ but I may be wrong.

2. SOMEBODY ELSE WANTED TO KNOW IF THERE WERE GOING TO BE GIANTS THERE! Because of the wording of that verse about the Wall, they thought the angel himself was 216 feet tall! (Rev.21:17) But it just says that the angel measured the wall "according to the measure of a man," & he says, "that is, of the angel." He's saying, that is the angel that did the measuring, but after the measure of a man. It's giving the measurement of the wall‚ not the angel!—Although it's quite possible for angels to appear any size, I'm sure. You remember the big giant one that appeared in the 10th Chapter of Revelation, one foot on the sea, one foot on the land, etc.

3. ORAL ROBERTS SAID HE SAW JESUS ONE TIME 900 FEET TALL! Well, I'm not going to dispute that, he's got the privilege of seeing Jesus too! I don't know why He'd want to be 900 feet tall though! That's sort of far up to look at & His face would be so far away! 900 feet, that's about as tall as the Empire State Building! So why the Lord would want to appear 900 feet tall to a little finite man, I don't know, unless He was trying to impress Oral Roberts with His greatness & power. But I don't think He would have had to impress Oral Roberts, he was already pretty well impressed!

4. I'VE OFTEN WONDERED, HOW DID HE KNOW JESUS WAS 900 FEET TALL WHEN HE WAS STANDING ON THE GROUND & LOOKING AT JESUS 900 FEET UP?—Unless He appeared alongside the Empire State Building! He hasn't got anything on his University Campus that tall to compare Him with. Maybe that was to impress his supporters with his need for that new building he was trying to get some money for!—Ha!

5. WELL, HE'S GOT AS MUCH RIGHT TO SAY HE'S SEEN JESUS 900 FEET TALL AS I HAVE THAT I'VE SEEN HEAVEN! But if I hadn't had something to compare some of those sizes with, such as people—which is about the best comparison you can have—I wouldn't have had the faintest idea of what I was even looking at or how big it was! But I looked way down & saw those little tiny things that looked like ants crawling on the ground, & it finally dawned on me they were people walking around down there at the base of it! I couldn't say it was 900 feet tall, I don't think it was that tall‚ but it sure looked awful tall! Maybe the Lord lifted him up eyeball-to-eyeball, & when he looked down, he saw the people were so small he estimated it was 900 feet.

6. I'M DOING QUITE A BIT OF ESTIMATING IN THESE HEAVENLY CITY PICTURES TOO‚ but I am trying to use known dimensions & measurements that are right there in the Bible which we can stick to & be pretty sure of. And when you see these comparative sizes, such as the size of the corner of the City & the angle of its slant & all that compared to the City Wall, you're getting actual to-scale measurements! So this is exactly the way it looks according to scale.

7. SOMEBODY ALSO THOUGHT THE ANGLE OF THE EXTERIOR CITY WALL SHOULD BE MORE PRECIPITOUS & GO MORE STRAIGHT UP, since it's such a big City compared to this little mansion sitting there. Well, the size of the mansion doesn't change the angle of the wall! The angle of the wall is exactly the same all the way up, 65 degrees, whether it's at the bottom or the top. And if you don't believe that, just draw yourself a scale drawing like I have done, & take your protractor & measure the angle. That's all there is to it! That one year of geometry really did me a lot of good! I may have to constantly ask you guys about some of the formulas because I forgot'm, but at least I remembered enough to be able to do some of this!

8. AND I'M CONVINCED IT'S A PYRAMID! I can't prove it, of course, except some of you guys have been giving me nice new Scriptures about "the mountain of the Lord's House," & Scriptures that are about Heaven, not about the old Jerusalem or Mt. Moriah or any of that stuff! They're definitely about Heaven & the Heavenly City. Several times in the Scripture it's called a mountain, & boy, if there's anything that looks like a mountain, take a look at that Pyramid! And since we have a specific description of that "House" in Revelation, I think we can pretty well correlate the two & pretty much assume that that's what He's talking about!—A Pyramid!

9. I CAN'T PROVE IT‚ EXCEPT THAT IN MY VISION THAT I HAD OF IT WHEN I WAS INSIDE LOOKING OUT, I HAD THE IMPRESSION THAT THE WALLS WERE SLOPED! And when I was inside looking up‚ I had the impression I was seeing the inside of a Pyramid! And of course, all the ground inside was just sort of like a park, just like this hollow Pyramid was set down on the surface of the Earth with this park on the ground floor with all these strange buildings, kind of like a World's Fair! Well, it was very difficult to describe, but we're doing our best! And our dear artist is working hard doing his best! He's working about all day every day on it! I received some new rough sketches after putting in your butterfly & your lambs & horse & lion. You guys really expect the impossible in that little tiny picture! Of course, you probably won't be able to see'm in that GN-size picture, but anyhow, they're there!

10. HE ALSO WIDENED THE SWIMMING POOL! I didn't ask him to do that, but he said he got that in a dream during the night, that the pool should be bigger. He said the Lord showed him in a dream just how to enlarge it without going to too much difficulty—just to push the two sidewalks over & sort of make it bigger, & without having to move any of the people or anything—so he did! He thought it ought to be bigger & was trying to figure out how to do it‚ & during the night he had this dream.

11. AND I GUESS THE LORD LET HIM WAKE UP SO HE COULD BE SURE & REMEMBER THE DREAM & PUT IT DOWN, because he said his mate awakened him at three o'clock in the morning to pray for her, because the baby was moving around so much she couldn't sleep! You know how it does in the last months sometimes, not only mama's uncomfortable, but baby's uncomfortable too, & he squirms & kicks! If you get in a position in which he feels a little cramped or anything‚ he gives a few swift kicks & insists that you move! You mothers know more about that than I do, but I can recall your stories. So when he woke up, he remembered he'd just been dreaming this dream! He'd gone to bed with the problem on his mind of how could he make that swimming pool bigger without too much trouble & changing the picture. I mean, he can't keep drawing new pictures all the time, although he does, & he said he saw in his sleep how to enlarge it!

12. I GET A LOT OF THINGS LIKE THAT!—EVEN LITTLE INVENTIONS AROUND THE HOUSE OF HOW TO DO THINGS! I'll go to bed with the problem on my mind & I'll get a picture of it right in my sleep as clear as anything! That's how I got those heaters & a lot of other things, I just saw a picture of it in my sleep. The Lord has a marvellous means of communication! He doesn't have to describe it, He just shows you a picture & there it is! PTL! I don't know why He never showed me those mansions! Well, maybe He did! Maybe this is it! Some things He gives you pretty easy, other things you sort of have to work at! Oh yes‚ we got your peacock in there too! I don't know about the pheasant, but maybe a few rabbits. That one picture's going to be overloaded!

13. WE GOT A FEW MORE QUOTES ABOUT HEAVEN TOO! Can you remember those? (Family: If this is like Heaven‚ then Heaven is like this!) There's good logic for you! We're always claiming we've got Heavenly Homes & this is like Heaven on Earth, well, if so, then Heaven must be like this! Just using an algebraic reverse formula, it's gotta be equal on both sides. So I thought that was pretty good proof that Heaven's going to be a lot like this, if this is like Heaven!—Ha!

14. OF COURSE, SOME PEOPLE CONVINCED AGAINST THEIR WILL ARE GOING TO BE OF THE SAME OPINION STILL! So I'm not worrying about the arguments of some of our critics, which I'm sure we'll have plenty of once we get these posters up! They're going to be kind of a shock to some people‚ especially our church friends! But I think they're going to be inspiring!

15. REMEMBER THAT LITTLE SONG WE GOT IN CLOSING LAST NIGHT? "THIS IS LIKE HEAVEN TO ME!" I revised some of the words this morning. I was singing about Maria & I think I sang it to you too, didn't I? (Sings: )

"Oh, you are like Heaven to me!

Yes, you are like Heaven to me!

I've entered your Heaven by means of your hands,

So this is like Heaven to me!"

What was the other one, Honey?

"Oh, this is like Heaven to me!

Yes‚ this is like Heaven to me!

So if Heaven's like this in our Family,

Then Heaven's like this to me!"

In other words, if this is like Heaven, Heaven's like this! PTL! I think it's going to be a lot more like this than most of those church people realise!

16. AS FAR AS ANGELS BEING 200 FEET TALL & JESUS 900 FEET TALL, THEY CAN MAYBE APPEAR THAT WAY SOMETIMES TO IMPRESS THE WORLD, but in all the appearances I ever heard about Jesus that are in the Bible, He was just normal size & looked normal like you & me!—And all the saints too! I don't recall any appearances of any of the former humans who were larger than normal, except the giants who were children of angels. (Gen.6:4) And even those normally were not more than about 9 feet tall—not 900 feet tall! The giants mentioned in the Bible were most of them 6–cubits high, which is 9 feet tall. (1Sam.17:4) That's pretty tall!

17. I SAW A GUY IN A CIRCUS ONCE 8 FEET TALL‚ & BOY, I'LL TELL YOU, HE WAS TALL ENOUGH TO SCARE YOU! But when they get that tall, the bigger they come, the harder they fall, & their weight nearly kills'm! They look a little odd too. Have you ever seen any of those extra-tall guys? They've got one in the movies now, about 7 feet tall, & he's awful big! There was one movie where you saw his head sticking through the top of the car. It really creates problems for guys that tall. Some think they've got problems at 6 feet 1inch, pity the poor guys that are 7- or 8 feet tall!

18. THAT VERY REFINED-LOOKING NEGRO TRIBE OF NORTH AFRICA, THE WATUSIS‚ RUN ABOUT 7 FEET TALL! I'm convinced our Ebed is probably a Watusi. He has those very refined intelligent features & he's very tall too, not at all like the Negroid type with the flat nose & thick lips. I don't know whether they've got any more Watusis or not. They're a lot like the Ethiopians, in fact, I think that's where they live.

19. REMEMBER, PHILIP CONVERTED THE ETHIOPIAN WHO WENT BACK TO QUEEN CANDACE & STARTED A CHRISTIAN DENOMINATION WHICH IS STILL IN EXISTENCE TO THIS DAY‚ CALLED THE CHRISTIAN COPTIC CHURCH! (Ac.8:27-39) This is the one that Sadat was having so much trouble with in Egypt. Well‚ he wasn't having so much trouble with them, but they & the Muslims didn't get along. The Muslims were really attacking them & causing a lot of violence & trouble because they're a minority. But unlike the Muslims who are mostly poor, the Coptics are pretty rich. Apparently the Lord blessed'm, & they were one of the original churches in Africa. Apparently they were the State Church of Queen Candace later in Abyssinia, which is now called Ethiopia. I think in Bible in Pictures we had some pictures of Coptic Priests‚ quite big tall fine–looking fellows with fine features, hardly any of what you call the common Negroid features. In other words, they don't look quite so much like normal Negroes.

20. WHEN YOU GET ASKED SOME OF THESE FUNNY QUESTIONS, YOU REALLY TRY TO THINK BACK ON THE BIBLE, IF YOU EVER HEARD OF ANY EXAMPLE OF THAT KIND. I knew a preacher once who believed angels could be any size, from 900 feet tall to microscopic, & that they could even enter your bloodstream or whatever, the size of germs! And he believed that the angels enter your body & fight diseases, hand–to-hand conflict with the microbes!—Ha! Well, why not? I can believe most anything! God can do most anything!

21. WELL, THE LORD DEFINITELY HAS GOOD FORCES WITHIN YOUR BODY WHICH FIGHT THE EVIL FORCES, & this is the big problem with this latest epidemic of what they call AIDS in which people have no resistance to any kind of disease. Why they want to call it "AIDS," I don't know, it doesn't aid'm, it hurts'm! It's rampant now amongst the Sodomites of America, the homos. They like to use that nice little word "homosexuals" instead of Sodomites. So they're getting their just deserts‚ as Paul said, receiving in their own bodies the judgement they deserve. (Rom.1:27)

22. BUT SCIENCE HAS KNOWN FOR A LONG TIME THAT WHITE BLOOD CORPUSCLES FIGHT DISEASE & that there are various other defence mechanisms in your body which fight disease & the forces of evil, etc. That was O.L. Jaggers' theory, by the way‚ a guy I used to work for. I didn't purposely work for him, but he bought the church & the school we were in & bought us with it! He had a lot of interesting ideas, & he believed that diseases were not only evil & just a result of the Curse & of the Devil, etc., but they were actually microscopic demons by the millions who entered your body. So he thought the Lord would send in legions of microscopic-size angels to fight'm when he prayed for you, of course! Well, I'm not going to argue with him! All things are possible! (Mk.9:23)

23. MAYBE I'M LIKE WHAT THE OLD COLOURED PREACHER SAID: I'VE GOTTA HAVE A LITTLE SOMETHIN' TO GO ON!—Some precedent or some example or some Scripture or a little something to found my faith on. In other words, I didn't cook up this idea of mansions just out of the blue! Jesus Himself said, "In My Father's House are many mansions!" (Jn.14:2) Just what kind of a mansion & what it looks like, that's something you've got to either get a revelation on or use your imagination or envision. I didn't say on my pictures that this is one of the mansions, I said a possible mansion! Well, all things are possible‚ so there it is!

24. I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT MATHEMATICALLY HOW MUCH SPACE THERE WAS, & I figured that was kind of the minimum of anything I'd call a mansion with gardens & all, & now a pool, & quite a few Heavenly angels like you girls! I just tried to estimate how much room it would take to house that many people. You can imagine my surprise when I took the minimum & found out that it would only take the first 100 miles of the walls alone to house 24 billion people! One billion such mansions with 24 in a mansion would only go up a hundred miles just in the walls!—With no houses any further than that & no houses inside!

25. THAT'S A BIG CITY! MAYBE THAT'S WHY NOBODY EVER TACKLED IT BEFORE! Either they just didn't believe it, or they thought it must be something symbolic. A lot of the preachers used to preach that it's just symbolic of the Church, the Bride of Christ. Maria did find a verse today where it is called "the bride," but I would have to look that up in the original. Because in the first verse it says "as a bride." (Rev.21:2) Next time He says, "I will show you the bride." (Rev.21:9) Well, there are peculiarities of language & you can't always go by just one little phrase or one word or Scripture. To really find out the facts you've got to go back to the original & the way it's used & the phraseology & terminology & all that sort of thing.

26. SO I'M GOING TO STICK TO MY GUNS THAT HE'S ONLY COMPARING IT TO A BRIDE, it's beautiful as a bride, even though in a following verse He calls it "the bride"! Well, He's already said "as a bride," so it would almost be natural to compare it the same way again. I'm just saying that I disagree with that interpretation that the City is merely a symbol or a picture of the Church. Leave it to the Church to want to look like a building, that's for sure! They build so damn many of them, they wouldn't mind that comparison at all! In fact‚ they'd rejoice in it!—A beautiful Temple that big, pearly gates & jewelled walls! They finally got their building, the kind they think they really deserve! But then they run into quite a few difficulties trying to symbolise & spiritualise all those measurements & exact sizes & forms & all the rest. I've heard their doctrine over & over again because my Dad used to preach it by the hour & I sat & listened to him for weeks & months!

27. BY THE WAY, I FORGOT TO LET OUR ARTIST KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN ANGEL GUARDING EACH GATE! Now why would the City have a big tall protective wall like that & gates of pearl with an angel guarding each gate unless there was some reason why they didn't want the people outside to get in? That's another proof to me that the people outside are not considered quite in shape to enter the City yet! It's quite obvious that they don't enter‚ except it says that "the kings of the nations do bring their glory & honour into it," so maybe they let only them in. (Rev.21:24)

28. BUT THE CHURCHES TRY TO SYMBOLISE & SPIRITUALISE ALL THOSE MEASUREMENTS & say, "Well, each of the walls had an Apostle's name, therefore that shows they were the foundation of the Church." (Re.21:14) Well, this wall is even outside the City! It's a separate wall, obviously, because it's only 216 feet high! It's not a part of the Pyramid or the City. If they want to have a cube, that's up to them. They've got as much right to their opinion of what it's shaped like as I have to mine. The funny part about it is, I never saw any of them ever draw a picture of it any shape!—Round, conical, square, cubical, pyramidical or whatever!—At all! They never attempted anything! Although the measurements are all there plain as day—& the shape!

29. IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY IT'S PYRAMIDICAL, BUT IT DEFINITELY SAYS IT IS FOURSQUARE! (Re.21:16) The base is a square 1500 miles wide. Well, what kind of a building are you going to build on a square unless it's either a cube or a pyramid or some very odd-shaped thing, if it's going to be just as high as it is wide? These are typical proportions of a pyramid, except this Pyramid is a little taller than most pyramids. Maybe you can look up the dimensions of the Great Pyramid.—I think its base is something like the size of eight football fields, as I recall.

30. THAT WAS THE MISTAKE I MADE WHEN I FIRST STARTED MAKING MY FIRST LITTLE "SPACE CITY" MODEL IN FRANCE THAT WE SET ON TOP OF THE WORLD. I went to work figuring each side was an equilateral triangle, which means an equal-sided triangle. The base was 1500 miles wide‚ & I brought it down to scale in the little model I made to suit the scale of the globe we had, & I started cutting out this little cardboard thing with the sides just the same. But it came to me as clear as anything, "No, no, it's wrong!" When you have it just as high as it is wide, then those other sides are longer than the base. In fact, from one corner to the peak of a Pyramid that size is over 1800 miles, over 300 miles further! The exact height would be perpendicular to the base. You've got to take a point at the center of the square & go straight up to the peak.

31. I SUPPOSE SOME PEOPLE THINK WE'RE CRAZY TAKING ALL THAT LITERALLY, BUT I'M TAKING IT FOR JUST WHAT IT SAYS! Unless you can prove to me it's symbolic‚ figurative or spiritual, I'm going to take it literally. Because it's about a place that Jesus has gone to prepare! And He caught John up there to see this place! He didn't say He was showing him just the Church. It uses that expression there, but having already said it was "as a bride adorned for her husband," I'm convinced it means the same thing in His second reference & that it's all very literal. And if it's called a City & it's got a wall & mansions & a river & trees & gates & exact dimensions, then why should we try to spiritualise it just because the names of the Apostles are on the various layers of the precious stones of the wall?

32. ON EACH OF THE GATES IS A NAME OF ONE OF THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL. Sometimes I wonder how the Lord could do that, but anyway, they're not all bad. Obviously from Revelation, some of us are good Jews! So He must be talking about usour 12 Tribes! Back in the days of TSC we used to have all of our folks divided up into tribes, just for the sake of convenience. Each tribe had a different type of work, etc. We even had a tribe of mechanics—Issachar! Ha! I don't know who dreamed that one up! I didn't even do that division of tribes, but some of our bright whiz-kid Jews, I'm sure, figured that all out. They tried to name them according to the names that were symbolic or significant of their job, so it was quite interesting. And since we know there are a lot of saved Jews & good Jews & we're some of them, if anybody's name's on there of those tribes‚ it must be our tribes! We know good & well it's not the Devil's tribes!

33. BUT WHY NOT HONOUR THE FAITHFUL ONES OF THE JEWS WHO HAVE OBEYED & FOLLOWED THE LORD THROUGH THE CENTURIES & ARE SAVED BY FAITH?—"The children of Abraham by faith"! (Ga.3:7) If you want to say that's symbolic, in a way we have entered by faith through Jewish gates, so to speak. And of course the spiritualisers, they make much of that‚ saying that therefore we came in through the Jews, & the foundation of the Church then was the Apostles, that's why their names are on there. I don't know how they account for angels guarding each gate of pearl instead of St. Peter, but anyway, they're there! Maybe it's to keep an eye on those Jews & make sure the wrong ones don't get in!

34. BUT IN THE BIBLE I ALWAYS TRY TO TAKE LITERALLY WHAT OBVIOUSLY I DON'T THINK COULD POSSIBLY BE SYMBOLIC! I mean, if it makes sense literally, take it literally!—Unless it is interpreted for you as being symbolic. You take Daniel's Image & his beasts, they are all interpreted by the angel or the man & you're told what each of these things stand for & represent & symbolise, so it's obviously symbolic. You're told, "This is that & that is this," etc. You're given the interpretation of this Image & what these beasts symbolise. But you're not given any such interpretation in Revelation of the City!

35. YOU'VE GOTTA GIVE ME SOMETHING STRONGER THAN THAT, than just to say the names of the Tribes are on the gates & the Apostles are on the walls, & therefore it means it's strictly symbolic, & therefore the gates are the Tribes & the walls are the Apostles. Well, if the City is the Church, what makes it 1500 miles square & high? There's no purpose in that numerology that I've ever even heard the spiritualisers make a stab at, as to why it should have such specific measurements. And if that wall is only symbolic of the 12 Apostles as the foundation of the Church, then why is it only 216 feet high?

36. I'LL TELL YOU ONE THING I FOUND OUT ABOUT THOSE SPIRITUALISERS, Philip Mauro & his ilk & all those guys who gave spiritual interpretations of all those things—the same guys that spiritualise Daniel, spiritualise everything in Revelation‚ the whole works! To them, nothing is literal, it's all spiritual, it's all symbolic! And not only that, it's all past!: "It's already happened, there's no future, we're already living in the Millennium, this is it!"

37. WHEN THEY GET THAT FAR AFIELD, I DON'T BELIEVE THE REST OF WHAT THEY'VE GOT TO SAY! If this is the Millennium, I don't want it! To them, all that Bible Prophecy is all ancient history, it's already happened—including the Antichrist & everything else! "It's all past history & this is already the Millennium, this is the Kingdom of God on Earth & we're now enjoying it already! This is the thousand years in which the nations have beaten their swords into plowshares & their spears into pruninghooks!" (Is.2:4) I don't see any signs of it myself!

38. SO WHEN THEY'RE THAT CRAZY & SPIRITUALISING EVERYTHING & THEIR INTERPRETATION IS SO FAR OUT & WILD, I HAVE MY DOUBTS ABOUT THE REST OF THEIR INTERPRETATIONS, such as spiritualising that City which the Lord said He'd gone to prepare‚ in which there are many mansions! And John saw it coming down out of the Heavens from God! Oh‚ you could say that's the Church descending to the Earth, but He calls it the New Heaven! Why would He call it that if it's just the Church? You say, "Well‚ we're Heaven on Earth & it's all symbolic. We're Heaven, we're the Bride, we're it, we're the Church, this is all symbolic & this is the Millennium & we're in it & we're ruling & reigning with Christ right now on the Earth!"

39. YOU SEE, IF THEY CARRY THEIR THESES & HYPOTHESES & COROLLARIES & WHATNOT TO THE NTH DEGREE, YOU FIND OUT THEY ARRIVE WAY OUT THERE IN OUTER SPACE SOMEPLACE TOO, & IT JUST DOESN'T FIT! If you use their kind of a formula on the whole thing & the mathematical formula doesn't fit the problem, it's not going to work! So unless John wants to tell me in his book that these are all symbolic & this means this & that means that, like it does in Daniel‚ I'm going to believe it's literal.—He doesn't give any symbolism! He just says the names are on the wall. The names are on the gates. He doesn't say the gates are those Tribes or the walls are the Apostles, he says their names are on there. Well, what better way could you immortalise & honour them for their great work in laying the foundation & preparation for the whole thing than to put their names on the gates & on the walls?—But that doesn't mean that they are the walls & they are the gates, etc.

40. I'M GIVING YOU THE NEGATIVE SIDE NOW. I might as well tell you the other side before somebody else gets at you & some of our folks & starts explaining it all away! "Oh‚ your father is haywire, he's crazy! We're already in the Millennium! The Tribulation is past, Jesus has come‚ this is it! We're ruling & reigning with Christ here & now! Can't you see how the nations are studying war no more & all the spears are beaten into pruninghooks & the swords into plowshares? Can't you see that?—And we've been enjoying it now for a thousand years!" That's not what I've been seeing! (Family: How could they believe that?) Well, frankly, the doctrine is not quite as popular any more!

41. I'LL TELL YOU WHEN IT GOT MOST POPULAR, RIGHT AFTER WORLD WAR 1—THE WAR TO END ALL WARS! "The League of Nations was going to bring eternal Worldwide peace from now on! The Church was supreme! Christianity ruled the Earth!"—They should have come to this neck of the woods!—Ha! Missions were widespread throughout the World & it wasn't going to be any time before all the heathen & everybody in the whole Earth was going to get saved, because there were missionaries everywhere in every country & everybody was accepting Jesus & "this is the Millennium!"—And for a little while some people got sucked in by that because it looked like we never had it so good. "We've had our last war, there's not going to be war any more, the nations are going to beat their swords into plowshares & spears into pruninghooks & they're not going to study war any more!" They tried to hand themselves that kind of stuff after World War 1 & the League of Nations, that they had brought in the Millennium, World Peace!

42. WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT KNOCKED THAT IN THE HEAD!—WORLD WAR 2!—And now they're fearing World War 3 very justifiably! So it doesn't quite look like the Millennium any more, & that doctrine has sort of gone out of popularity.—Although it's still hanging around & they still use it to explain away Daniel & Ezekiel & Revelation & anything that sounds a little too literal. "Christ has already come, He's come in your hearts, Jesus has come! Maybe you didn't hear the Trumpet or the Voice of the Archangel or the shout of God, but maybe you felt like shouting! Jesus is here! You didn't see Him coming in the clouds with great glory? Well, that's just symbolic to show you how wonderful it is to receive the Lord & get saved!" They symbolise the whole works, everything!

43. SO IF YOU WANT TO ACCEPT THAT DOCTRINE, YOU'VE GOT TO ACCEPT IT LOCK, STOCK & BARREL‚ HOOK, LINE & SINKER!—And you'll sure get hooked, that's for sure! To think that my father could have ever gotten into that stuff! I'll tell you, I think one thing that did it was he got so fed up with the Jews! The doctrine was very popular when I was young, called "British Israelism," in which the British‚ & therefore the Americans, were claiming to be the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, of all the funny things, when they're all right there in Ezra & Nehemiah! You've got samples of every single Tribe coming back that never got lost!—Except the ones that didn't want to come back. But if you trace those names & genealogy & all, every single Tribe was represented in the return from Babylon. So there weren't any Tribes lost, that's a big lot of baloney!

44. … [T]he name "Britain" comes from the Hebrew "B'rith," which literally means "the Brotherhood," & B'nai B'rith is the American laymen's organisation of the Jewish people. … I'm convinced that some of those legends about the origins of Britain & the kings of Britain could be very true, which the British Israelites also teach, about the seven daughters of the King of Judah who fled with Jeremiah down to Egypt when the Lord told them not to.

45. AFTER THE FALL OF JERUSALEM THE LORD PROMISED HE WOULD TAKE CARE OF JEREMIAH, & HE DID! Even his enemies brought him out of jail & paid him off & sent him out & told him he could go anywhere he wanted to go, sort of set him up in business! They gave him gifts & food & told him to stay there & take care of his people, the poor who were left in the land. (Je.40:4-6) They weren't worried about the poor people. The poor people weren't their enemies, they weren't the ones that had been bothering them, it was all those rich Jews, tough bigwigs who wanted to fight Babylon & refused to pay taxes to Babylon & refused to yield to the King of Babylon.

46. IT WAS THE RICH JEWS WHO RESISTED BABYLON! Babylon had nothing against the poor of the land out in the boonies, the poor farmers & the rest of them. It was those … Jews inside of Jerusalem that made'm mad, who thumbed their noses at'm & cursed'm & made fun of'm & even insulted them from the walls of Jerusalem when the armies of Babylon were surrounding them. The Jews flung down insults at them, thinking their God was going to preserve them. But you know what happened, He didn't!

47. SO THE BABYLONIANS INVADED THE CITY & TORE IT DOWN & BURNED IT & captured the king & his sons & took a third of the people captive & all the rich & all the guys that'd been fighting them & all their wealth & carted them off to Babylon. Two-thirds of the people were killed!—By fire & by pestilence & by sword! That was the damage to the men of the city who were resisting, they were carried off to Babylon. But the people who lived out in the country on the farms, the poor, they didn't bother'm! You read it! (Jer.39)

48. IN FACT, THEY SAID‚ "JEREMIAH, YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO NOW! You can make Gedaliah king"—& the Babylonians more or less appointed him governor. He was some kind of relative of the former king‚ Zedekiah. I don't think he was one of the sons, because they killed all of his sons right in front of him. That was one of their final tortures of the king, they slew his sons right in front of him, & then they put out his eyes so that would be the last thing he ever saw! (Jer.39:6‚7)

49. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REBELLIOUS KING ZEDEKIAH who Jeremiah had warned time & time again to surrender, & he refused to surrender, because his nobles advised him not to surrender. The last thing he ever saw was the death of his sons, slaughtered in front of his eyes, & he was carried off in chains to die.—Along with all of those rich people & smart people like Daniel & their children & all, who were carried off to Babylon.

50. TWO–THIRDS OF THE PEOPLE WERE SLAUGHTERED, & only the people out in the country were spared who didn't flee into the city for protection, but fled outside beyond the lines of the enemy & into the backwoods & the country & the mountains & the hills & the farms. They never bothered them, & they told Jeremiah he could go back & take care of'm & have this new little king who was a little nobody, a nincompoop! He obviously didn't have much sense, because although Jeremiah tried to persuade him not to go to Egypt, he wouldn't listen.

51. THEY WERE SO SCARED AFTER ALL THAT HAPPENED, that the whole bunch of them, country people, farmers, everybody, wanted to completely flee the country, totally, utterly, because they were afraid that the Babylonians were going to attack them next. But the Babylonians promised Jeremiah that they wouldn't bother'm‚ they were all right, & they could stay there & take the land & be at peace. The Babylonians virtually blessed Jeremiah & the people who were left, the survivors. They gave him money & food & told him he could go anywhere he wanted to & said that they would not bother the people or their new king or anything.

52. BUT THE PEOPLE GOT SO DAMN SCARED, & FALSE PROPHETS PROPHESIED TO THEM THAT THEY SHOULD LEAVE THE LAND COMPLETELY, that the Babylonians were going to come back again & slaughter them all! And no matter what Jeremiah said, they hadn't believed him to begin with in the city‚ neither did the country people believe him! Talk about a poor Prophet who had a tough time & nobody ever believed him, it was poor Jeremiah! It's all in the Bible & is a very interesting story if you want to read it. I'm just summarising it for you.

53. THEY JUST INSISTED ON FLEEING THE COUNTRY & GOING DOWN TO EGYPT TO SEEK THE PROTECTION OF PHARAOH OF EGYPT, BECAUSE HE WAS THE PRINCIPAL ENEMY OF BABYLON. Now here you've got kind of a strange analogy or comparison of today. Here were the two superpowers, Babylon & Egypt, fighting each other, & the Jews fled to the protection of the other superpower, the Godless, idolatrous, demonic Egyptians! Imagine, fleeing down there! The Lord even said if you're going to lean on Pharaoh, he's going to be a staff which is going to break & pierce your hand! Like if you'd lean on that rod out there & it would break & pierce your hand, He said that's what's going to happen.

54. BUT IF YOU READ THE SCRIPTURE, THAT'S WHERE THE STORY ENDS, with them insisting on fleeing the country. And poor Jeremiah, he didn't want to stay there all by himself with no people to preach to any more. He was losing his congregation! His church was moving South!—Ha! So they carried him with them, warning them every step of the way that they shouldn't do it! But they didn't pay any attention to him at all!

55. AND THE LEGEND IS IN JEWISH HISTORY THAT THE SEVEN DAUGHTERS OF ONE OF THE KINGS WENT ALONG‚ & eventually when things got too hot for them in Egypt—just as Jeremiah & the Lord had prophesied, that Egypt was not going to be a good refuge & they were not going to protect them & they were going to be worse off in Egypt than before—the Jewish legend is that these seven daughters fled with the Stone of David. This is what the dear Lost Ten Tribes of British Israelites preach, & there may be some truth in it! As I say, once I got to London & looked around me, I was pretty convinced!

56. THE STONE OF DAVID, NOW KNOWN AS THE STONE OF SCONE, IS THE LARGE FLAT STONE WHICH IS IN THE BOTTOM OF THE THRONE UPON WHICH THE KINGS OF ENGLAND ARE CROWNED. There's this big stone fitted in the bottom of the chair on a shelf, & all the kings & queens are crowned on that throne with that stone underneath it, which as I recall was called the Stone of Scone because it was stolen from Scotland. In fact, not long ago it was stolen again by some kind of saboteurs, & then they found it & replaced it.

57. THE LEGEND HAS IT THAT THE SEVEN JEWISH DAUGHTERS OF THE JEWISH KING TOOK THE STONE OF SCONE WITH THEM, supposedly the same stone upon which King David sat when he was crowned. You can't prove it by the Bible, but it's Jewish legend that this was a special stone upon which the kings sat to be crowned. According to the tale, they took it with them when they left Egypt‚ from Alexandria, & they shipped all the way to Britain. … The British Israelites swear to this, & I'm pretty convinced that maybe they're right. …

58. ANYWAY, THAT'S THE LEGEND & THAT'S SUPPOSEDLY WHERE THEY WENT & TOOK THE STONE WITH THEM, & IT WASN'T LONG BEFORE THEY WERE CROWNING THEIR KINGS OF BRITAIN ON IT! Even the name "Britain" is quite significant, very much like the Hebrew word "Brith." I'm convinced that that Bruderbond or "brotherhood" which rules South Africa & the Nationalist Party of South Africa, are … Christian Jews, converted Jews. And boy, the other Jews fight'm like mad, they hate'm! Capetown's the center of the … Jewry, & they hate the Bruderbond Government! But I'm convinced [the Bruderbond] are Christian Jews, like us! Given enough time, we would have taken the World over anyhow by the process of multiplication!—All these lovely babies we're having for one thing, from these beautiful mothers!—As well as by our wits & God's power!

59. SO THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL DIDN'T GET LOST & THEY'RE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD TODAY, I'M SURE! The funny thing about the … the Israelis & all, they really don't know what Tribes they belong to any more! Especially since Israel's been restored, they've been trying to establish their identity & what Tribes they belong to & all that‚ but it's a bunch of bull!—Because all the records are lost & they have no idea what Tribes they came from! Some even try to lose their Jewish identity, much less their Tribal identity. So today they haven't the faintest idea!

60. IF THE MESSIAH'S GOING TO BE BORN SUPPOSEDLY IN THE TRIBE OF JUDAH‚ THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THE JUDAHITES ARE! And besides, Bethlehem today is a solid Arab town, not a Jew in it except the Israeli soldiers!—Unless he's going to be born to one of their camp followers or something. Jesus couldn't even be born in Bethlehem anymore!—Unless Begin's going to set up one of his colonies there, which I wouldn't put it past him! But Bethlehem has been a thoroughly Arab Christian town for centuries‚ so I think he'd have a little difficulty trying to stick some of his Jews in there!

61. SO IN OTHER WORDS, JESUS COULDN'T EVEN BE BORN IN BETHLEHEM NOW‚ BECAUSE THERE ARE NO JEWS THERE! And they wouldn't know what was the Tribe of Judah anyhow if He was born there! So the time of Jesus' birth is past! It's too late for Jesus to be born as He was. It's impossible now. And of course it's impossible, because He was already born 2000 years ago & He was the Messiah! They just missed it, that's all!

62. WELL, THE JEWS ARE SCATTERED ALL OVER THE WORLD, & THANK GOD THERE'RE SOME GOOD JEWS & CHRISTIAN JEWS LIKE US! But we don't really know what Tribes we belong to, if any, & I believe the Lord has purposely allowed all that. … In Christ, there's no Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, bond nor free‚ whatever! We're all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal.3:28) Whether you're a Jew or a Gentile it makes no difference in our Family!

63. BUT WE CERTAINLY DO SEEM TO HAVE AN AWFUL LOT OF JEWS IN OUR FAMILY, I NEVER SAW THE LIKE! All the pictures I get from the field, everybody who's really getting somewhere & pushing, they look as Jewish as they can be! Well‚ you know what a bunch of pushers the Jews are! No wonder the Lord had to take us Jews to do what we're doing! GBY! They're leaders of the World, & in this case we're leaders of Christianity!—Just like the Bruderbond are leaders of those converted Jews of South Africa! And look what energy & drive & pioneering spirit my forefathers had to leave Stuttgart & strike out on their own & come over to the U.S. in a sailboat in 1745 & set up farming & soon got rich! That took a lot of courage & guts & drive! They've got it! And if they haven't got it, they'll get it!

64. WELL, WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO WITH THE HEAVENLY CITY?—THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL HAVING THEIR NAMES ON THE GATES! As Paul says, we owe the Jews a lot, mainly, he said, for preserving the Oracles of God, the Word of God. (Rom.3:2) And if you look at their history, that's almost all we owe them!—And for awhile they even lost that! They lost the Bible, & the scrolls were buried in the walls of the Temple for years until they started remodeling the temple & dug'm out! They'd even lost the Bible, think of that! You read it! It's in the Bible‚ the story's right there. (2Kg.22 & 23) They found'm & they started reading'm & the king got convicted. Imagine, their religion was so buried they'd even forgotten they had it until they dug out the scrolls & found the Bible again, & King Josiah got convicted & started putting it into practice. And that caused one of the great revivals of those ancient times.

65. PAUL SAYS, "WELL, WHAT PROFIT IS THERE TO BE A JEW?—MUCH EVERY WAY!" (Rom.3:1,2) He says that, but then he has a hard time proving it!—Ha! But he says, first of all, to them are committed the Oracles of God, the Words of God. Well, to whom were the oracles of the Words of God committed‚ which Jews? (Family: The believing ones.) And who were the most believing ones? Their names are even the names of books!—The Prophets!—And some of the kings. It was only some of their outstanding, as you say, believers, kings & prophets & priests, etc., who were really faithful & true & preserved the Word of God.—Like you're doing today!

66. YOU COULD ALMOST COMPARE US, AS WE HAVE & AS THE LORD HAS IN THE PAST, AS BEING THE PROPHETS OF THIS AGE, BUT THE CHURCHES AS BEING SIMILAR TO GENERAL UNBELIEVING JEWRY! We're the true Prophets who are conserving & preserving the Oracles of God‚ the Word of God, & still receiving & hearing from the Lord, whereas the rest of the Church is deaf, dumb & blind! God quit talking to most of them years ago!—Except for a few little believing sincere souls which are few & far between & few in number in the average church. Otherwise you'd see more of them out witnessing & winning souls & warning the people & warning the nation or being missionaries!

67. HOW MANY CHURCHES DID YOU HEAR THE WARNING MESSAGE IN, THAT GOD'S GOING TO DESTROY AMERICA? I'll tell you‚ any preacher that has the nerve to preach that kind of a message in any average church of America today, that God's going to destroy America, they're going to get busy & destroy him real quick & get themselves a new preacher! They don't want to hear that kind of thing! I know! I was there! We tried it!—And we got thrown out of many a church! They didn't want to hear the Warning Message of doom at all‚ they just shut their eyes & their ears & tried to shut our mouths! They didn't want to see it or hear it! There are none so blind as those who will not see!

68. SO WHICH OF THE JEWS GET CREDIT FOR PRESERVING THE WORDS OF GOD?—NOT MANY! Only a handful‚ mostly the Prophets. And Jesus said, "What have you done with your Prophets anyhow? You killed them all!" (Mt.23:37) Nearly every one of them was slaughtered, killed or martyred by their own Jews! … Paul says that one reason was that they were the custodians of the Oracles of God. Well, that was very few of them. Very few were faithful. Very few kept them, & furthermore, very few obeyed them!

69. HE ALSO SAID THAT‚ AFTER ALL, IT'S THROUGH THEM THAT JESUS CAME, through the forefathers, & since He was the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, therefore we should give the Jews a little credit for having fathered Jesus. Well, after they fathered Him‚ you can see what they did to Him! So how much credit do they deserve for that? Well, we could go on down the line, but that's not really our subject tonight. We were talking about how some people spiritualise all that description of the Holy City & its stones & jewels & gates & walls & mansions & whatnot! I've forgotten what the spiritualisers call the mansions, but anyhow, maybe they're individual churches or something.

70. [Regarding the] handful of real believers who were children of Abraham by faith just like we are‚ … I certainly thank God for them! But if you even look back at the Patriarchs, they were a bunch of rascals & most of them were really quite a mess! There were very few of them that were great saints like Abraham or Moses & some of them, & even they were rascals sometimes, just like you & me! …

71. EXCUSE ME, PAUL, BUT WE'LL DISCUSS IT WHEN I GET THERE! I think probably by this time he's seen the light & is more inclined to agree with me, especially after those experiences he went through in Jerusalem just before he almost got killed! I think he sort of gave up on them then, although he still writes letters about'm. That's the funniest thing about Paul‚ he's so strong on grace & the end of the law & all of that, but every now & then he has a little relapse & he gets a little nostalgic feeling for his brethren & the dear old Jews & he really feels sorry for them & hopes there's some hope for them, etc., so he kind of backwaters a little bit.

72. SO I JUST DON'T GO FOR THE SPIRITUALISATION OF ALL THE PROPHECIES & spiritualisation of the Millennium, that this is it, & spiritualisation of the Holy City, that it's just a symbol of the Church & the Bride of Christ & all that baloney! Having told you all they believe‚ you might have been able to swallow that those were pictures of the Church & all that, but then you realise they spiritualise everything & all Bible Prophecy & say this is the Millennium & you're now ruling & reigning with Christ & the nations are not studying war any more! "Well, that's of course spiritually speaking & symbolically speaking, you know. You have to have a lot of real spiritual insight to realise we have peace on Earth today. You've got to see it from the spiritual angle & symbolically, that compared to some other eras‚ this is an era of peace!" Well, the historical facts are that they've had more wars in this era & killed more people & destroyed more countries than in any other era in all World history!—In fact‚ in just about all World History previous to this particular era in which we live, there's never been one so bad!

73. SO I JUST CAN'T SWALLOW THAT SYMBOLIC SPIRITUALISATION OF THE INTERPRETATION OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION PARTICULARLY! They just spiritualise it all away & say it's all symbolical. Some of them say, "Well‚ it's impossible to understand. Don't even try to understand it. It's just beautiful poetry & just a kind of a symbolic picture of the triumph of good over evil, which will eventually occur"—or if they're really one of their devotees—"is occurring right now, & you're already ruling & reigning on Earth with Jesus & this is the Millennium! You may not know it, it may not look like it, but this is it!" Well as I say, if this is it, I don't want any of it!

74. WELL, WE HAVE A LITTLE MILLENNIUM IN OUR HOMES & HEARTS, & WE ARE RULING & REIGNING WITH CHRIST WITHIN OUR OWN FELLOWSHIP, THAT'S TRUE. But it's obvious from the looks of the rest of the World & all these passports & visas & problems we have, that we're not really running the place yet! I just don't go for their doctrine or their misinterpretation. Therefore if I can't take that, I've got to take it literally. If it's not symbolic, if it's not explained away by interpretation such as the angels explain Daniel's visions, etc., & make it very clear that they were symbolic & explain the interpretation, then unless you give me some angel that's going to explain Revelation to me some other way, I'm going to take it that it means what it says!

75. THERE WERE A FEW OF THEIR TEACHERS WHO WENT TO THE TROUBLE TO TRY TO EXPLAIN REVELATION‚ & they say that all those things, locusts, horsemen, etc.‚ are all symbols of past historical events. According to them, the 200 million horsemen were the Moslems who swept the Earth in their day, & the locusts were Genghis Khan or something like that! And I'm sorry to say that although I have recommended Halley's Handbook, I warned you the very first time I ever talked about it, to look out for his interpretation of Bible Prophecy, because that's where he's off! After all, how can he be Napoleon when I'm Napoleon?

76. I WAS PAGING THROUGH HIS BOOK THE OTHER DAY, & SURE ENOUGH, IT'S STILL THERE! I notice he's not quite as dogmatic about it any more though. He gives several different interpretations in Halley's Handbook of some of these things, & for the first time, he actually admits that maybe it's a future Antichrist! For years, they & he & all of them said it was Antiochus Epiphanes. You probably never heard the name, thank God, one of the Syrian or Grecian descendants to the Alexandrian Empire who finally got fed up with the Jews & overran Jerusalem & the Temple.

77. AND JUST TO DEFILE & DEFAME & COMMIT SACRILEGE AGAINST THE JEWS & THEIR RELIGION, HE SACRIFICED A PIG ON THE JEWISH ALTAR! You can imagine how that infuriated the Jews! So in their interpretation, that was the Abomination of Desolation which stood in the Holy Place!—And all the Jews ran for the hills! Well, you can't blame'm for running for the hills with a guy like that around! To them‚ he was the Antichrist! And of course that was over two thousand years ago, before the time of Christ, shortly after Alexander, as I recall. I don't think there's any profit in looking up their crazy interpretations, I'm telling you all you need to know.

78. SO ACCORDING TO THEIR SCREWY INTERPRETATIONS, ALL OF THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED YEARS AGO! "Of course, it had to happen a long time ago because then Jesus came, & since then the Church has grown & taken over the World & He has come again in your hearts‚ His Second Coming was spiritual too, & here you are enjoying the Millennium!" What do you think about that? Does this look like the Millennium to you?

79. WELL, INSIDE OF THIS HOUSE IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE THE MILLENNIUM! IN FACT, IT LOOKS LIKE HEAVEN TO ME! PTL! But it doesn't look like either the Millennium or Heaven outside! I'll admit the Tropix looks a little bit Heavenly & our garden looks nice, thanks to you boys who take good care of it, & the pool, & we have a little bit of Heaven right now!—A Heavenly mansion!—A Heavenly Home full of Heavenly people with Heavenly joy & happiness & bountiful supply! We've got a little bit of Heaven here on Earth right now, that's true!

80. BUT I WOULDN'T SAY THAT OUTSIDE ON THE EARTH THAT "RIGHTEOUSNESS COVERS THE EARTH AS THE WATERS COVER THE SEAS" & that we are "ruling & reigning with Christ" over all the Earth with a rod of iron! (Is.11:9; Re.2:27; 20:4) Try to make some of those prophecies about even the Millennium fit today & see where it gets you! I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous! I don't see the lion lying down with the lamb, unless the lamb's inside the lion! I don't see peace between men & the animals outside today. This is no Millennium to me! This looks more like Hell on Earth than Heaven on Earth!—Except in our own Homes & hearts & our own Family!

81. SO I WOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT THE SPIRITUALISATION & THESE SPIRITUALISERS! You can't call them spiritualists, because that's something else in Church lingo. Spiritualists are those who have contact with familiar spirits, & although the Bible does warn against familiar spirits, it means, of course‚ evil spirits. That's why the Apostle says be sure you can tell the difference‚ discerning of spirits, because there are some good & some bad. (1Jn.4:1) Thank God for the good ones we've got who help us, & we wouldn't be where we're at today if it hadn't been for them. Amen?—His ministering spirits, His angels & all the rest!

82. THE CHURCH CALLS THE SPIRITUALISTS THE PEOPLE WHO DEAL WITH SPIRITS, & THEY HAVE SPIRITUAL MANIFESTATIONS IN THEIR CHURCHES & SPIRITS SPEAK THROUGH THEIR PREACHERS.—Mostly women mediums‚ by the way, & some of them are quite real & possibly good. I've been to a few spiritualist churches where they sang hymns just like any other Christian church & preached Christ & preached salvation, but they had manifestations of spirit beings through their leaders or their mediums that spoke through them & gave messages!—Usually a woman pastor‚ because women seem to make the best mediums.

83. WELL, A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT CALL THE PENTECOSTALS SPIRITUALISTS because they get messages in tongues too, interpretation, etc. But of course, they only have the Holy Spirit! How do they know? In fact, I knew a few Pentecostals that I was pretty sure it wasn't even the Holy Spirit either, not even a holy spirit, but some pretty unholy ones!

84. BUT AS I'VE ALREADY TAUGHT, I BELIEVE THAT GOD'S MINISTERING SPIRITS ARE THE ONES THAT BRING US THESE GIFTS! I know in my case that I never spoke in tongues until Abrahim came along. By that time I'd even quit trying or seeking tongues. All the other Pentecostals had it, & you weren't counted as a real Pentecostal unless you spoke in tongues, kind of peer pressure. It didn't matter how many other gifts you might have, according to them, if you didn't speak in tongues, you didn't have the Holy Spirit! You could have all other eight gifts, & not have the Holy Spirit unless you spoke in tongues.—That's Pentecostalism! That's the cardinal doctrine of the Orthodox Pentecostalism of all the various Pentecostal denominations, that you have not received the Holy Spirit unless you have spoken in tongues.

85. WELL‚ IF THAT'S TRUE, THAT WOULD MEAN AFTER ALL THOSE YEARS OF MINISTRY I NEVER HAD THE HOLY SPIRIT, that I never got the Holy Spirit when I was 19‚ that I never had the Holy Spirit in my mother's womb & I never had the Holy Spirit until Abrahim came along! And they'll have to give him credit for it, because that's when I got the tongues! And I know he's a holy spirit, praise God, because we wouldn't be here if it weren't for God's holy spirits that have helped us, as well as the Holy Spirit! PTL!

86. ANYHOW, THE CHURCHES, ESPECIALLY ALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS, EVANGELICALS, ETC., WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SPIRITISTS & SPIRITUALISTS. They won't even have anything to do with angels till we get to Heaven, because they just can't believe in those things. They say, "Well, maybe you have a guardian angel, maybe you don't!" After all, that's getting too much into the supernatural & into the Spirit World, & if they have to recognise a Spirit World, then they've got to recognise angels & spirits & a lot of other supernatural things. Then they've also got to recognise ghosts!

87. IT'S FUNNY HOW THOSE WHO REALLY ARE PENTECOSTALS & SPIRITUAL PEOPLE, HOLY SPIRIT PEOPLE, THEY BELIEVE IN EVIL SPIRITS & CASTING OUT DEMONS & ALL THAT, BUT THEY SEEM TO THINK THAT ALL SUCH SPIRITS ARE EVIL! They don't give any credence or credit to God having any good spirits at all! (Family: But it says to "try the spirits." [1Jn.4:1]) Yes, but some of them interpret that as knowing different kinds of evil spirits, & spirits of this type & spirits of that type, etc. Although it says right there, "whether they be of God"! Well‚ they've got ways of explaining away everything somehow!

88. WELL, WE BROUGHT A REVOLUTION ALONG THAT LINE TO THE CHURCH, BUT OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T WANT IT, SO THEY HAVEN'T GOT IT! But we've got it & we're happy, so thank the Lord! We know it's true, I know it's true, you know it's true, or we wouldn't be here today & we wouldn't have had some of the beautiful revelations we've had & beautiful prophecies & all the rest. I read over those quotes & prophecies & I think, "My, it's so beautiful!" I never in this World could've imagined those or cooked'm up even if I wanted to! Maria was there, she knows! I couldn't have spoken that as it came! It just flowed like a river in beautiful poetic Bible language!

89. THE LORD USES THE SAME KIND OF ENGLISH IN PROPHECY THAT HE USED IN THE MOST POPULAR KING JAMES VERSION, WHICH IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL ENGLISH OF ALL! Every time I've ever heard messages in tongues & interpretation & prophecies amongst English-speaking people‚ He's used that kind of English. He apparently thinks that's the prettiest English, so He uses it. It's Bible English. I won't say that you can't get prophecies or interpretations in modern American, because if the poor kids aren't very familiar with it, they'd maybe have a hard time speaking it, I don't know! But if it's strictly supernatural‚ they should be able to speak any language!

90. BUT I KNOW I ALONE COULD NEVER HAVE FLOWED WITH THOSE PROPHECIES!—Marvellous poetical beautiful language & symbolism & pictures‚ etc.! I never in this World could have just dreamed those up or imagined them or thought them up out of my head! I'm astonished, I'm dumbfounded, I'm awed & I glorify God when I read'm over‚ because I know they're of the Lord! Some I didn't even know I was getting‚ it happened in my sleep, & I woke up that night or the next morning & didn't even know I'd gotten anything! The Lord had complete total control of my tongue while I was asleep or in a trance or whatever you want to call it.

91. SO I KNOW IT WAS THE LORD!—YOU READ'M & YOU'LL KNOW IT'S THE LORD! You know that you never heard me talk like that around here! That's not my natural way of speaking!—Unless you've heard me sometimes give a little prophecy or give an interpretation, & you've never even heard much of that, have you? Why He doesn't do that more publicly, I don't know. Maybe that's not what you need the most of. You've got it, it's in the record, maybe He wants you to read it! Why should He give you any more when He's given you more than you can read now? Most of what He gives you now is teaching & trying to explain things to you.

92. WELL, THE CHURCHES DON'T EVEN WANT TO HARDLY RECOGNISE THE ANGELS, MUCH LESS GOOD SPIRITS! How many preachers or Christians have you ever heard praying for the angels & thanking God for His angels?—Probably because they didn't have any! They didn't encourage'm to stick around & didn't thank'm‚ so why should they? Well, the Lord has promised to protect them anyhow. He says "the angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear Him" & the angels will lift you up "lest you dash your foot against a stone." (Ps.34:7; 91:11‚12) He's given a lot of promises.

93. LOOK AT ALL THOSE PROMISES HE'S GIVEN ABOUT ANGELS TAKING CARE OF YOU, & THEY DON'T EVEN THANK'M! They don't even give them credit for it‚ they're so afraid of the Spirit World & so afraid of spirits & spirit beings! They've been so scared to death by the spiritists & spiritism & evil spirits & whatnot, that they're so afraid of all the wildfire, they're afraid of any kind of fire & any kind of spirits! So they really lost something, really lost a lot. They really missed something! Thank God you haven't!

94. THE LORD'S BROUGHT YOU INTO SOMETHING THAT IS GLORIOUS & WONDERFUL & REALLY A REVIVAL OF THE MARVELS OF THE PAST, EVEN MORE SO! He has poured out such a stream of the Word! I am astonished, I'm amazed, I'm awed at how much God has given this generation! I was reading some of those prophecies, how He says that He's loved this generation more than any other generation, which is why He has given you more than any other generation!—Perhaps because you've suffered more & some are going to suffer more, so He's really loving you & trying to encourage you.

95. THIS IS THE GENERATION UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF THE EARTH ARE COME!—The generation that's going to have to go through the Tribulation‚ the hardest time the World's ever known! So He's being especially good to you & giving you extra special good preparation & such a flood of the Word of God as no generation has ever known!—Bookshelves of it! Think of it!—And descriptions, dreams, visions, prophecies, interpretations, trips to Heaven! Now He's even trying to picture Heaven for you, or at least we are, according to His descriptions & dimensions. We're trying to give you a good conception of it or a picture of it at least, & I hope you appreciate it.

96. I WANT YOU TO SEE HOW REAL IT IS! LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE TO LOOK FORWARD TO! We're trying to depict it the best we can from what descriptions we've had & what visions we've had, what dreams we've had. When I sat down to draw that first mansion‚ I really asked the Lord to help me. I said‚ "Now Lord, what would we want our housing to be like? And after all the other things You've said about how pretty it is & everything, why not make it pretty with gardens & all these beautiful things?" And you guys are all adding your two cents' worth!—So you're going to see all the things there that you wanted to see.

97. BUT I BELIEVE IT! I DON'T SPIRITUALISE IT, BECAUSE THERE'S NO INTERPRETATION THERE! I don't just brush it all away & say it's impossible to understand, it's all symbolic, we don't know what it means, like some do. I don't say, "Well, you shouldn't try to even attempt to depict it‚ because it might be sacrilegious‚ it might be blasphemous to try to draw pictures of something that you don't really know what it looks like. And if it's not exactly like the real thing, that could be sacrilege or blasphemy!" Well, I don't know about that!

98. THE PROPHETS DID THEIR BEST TO DESCRIBE A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT THEY SAW, & GOD KNOWS HOW NEAR THE DESCRIPTION FITS THE REALITY, BUT THEY DID THE BEST THEY COULD in the language they had & from the memory of the experience that they'd had.—And that's all I've done! And now drawing pictures of it is the next step, just to try to give you some little kind of an idea of what it may be like! I'm not saying it's exactly like that, except for the City & the wall & the pearls & those things for which we've got exact measurements & descriptions. It might not look exactly like that, but it's close!

99. WE HAVE THE EXACT MEASUREMENTS‚ THE COLOURS, THE DESCRIPTION, THE EXACT STONES & ALL OF THESE THINGS! Our dear artist went & got himself a book of all kinds of precious stones, so he's copying the colours from there for those stones & all.—He will‚ at least, in the final colour poster. I mean, that's pretty exact when the Lord names the kind of stones, & we know the colours of those stones from books. If you've never seen the rocks themselves, at least you can see pictures of them in books. Most of this poor Family has never seen rocks like that!—Ha! The only Rock we're very familiar with is the Rock Christ Jesus‚ praise God, & He's the most precious Stone of all, the Cornerstone!

100. THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT COMES TO ME, IF THAT WHOLE THING IS SUPPOSED TO BE SYMBOLIC & IS JUST A SYMBOL OF THE CHURCH & ALL, WHERE'S THE CORNERSTONE, JESUS? There's no cornerstone described in John's trip to Heaven, because I believe it's literal! You don't have to believe it, I'm not making you, I'm not begging you to believe it, I'm just offering you a visualisation, which is close, at least, in both size & proportion & even colours of the rocks from the literal description given in the Bible!—And if you don't like it, you don't have to! If you don't want it, you don't have to! If you don't believe it, you don't have to! But we're doing the best we can to make it real to you to give you at least some little idea of what it looks like.

101. I'VE CALLED IT MY IDEA OF HEAVEN! You don't have to accept it as your idea if you don't like it that way, but I think we've gotten it pretty straight!—Certainly the City & the wall & a few things that are pretty definite. And in proportion to that, I figured out these other mathematical details which are possible & how many homes you could have, how many people you could house & how high up the walls it would have to go to house that many in that many homes & all of that. So that's a mathematical possibility. God knows it might be a lot better than that, & probably is, but I was just figuring on the minimum!

102. WHEN YOU SEE OUR LITTLE CHILDISH PICTURES, YOU CAN FIGURE, WELL, THAT'S SORT OF A CHILDISH CONCEPTION OF THESE THINGS. It's certainly the absolute minimum, & the reality's going to be far better! But when you had nothing to go by at all before‚ at least a little pictorialisation, a little depiction, a little artist's conception, even a little bit of imagination helps!—Especially if it's according to the measurements & the proportions & even colours given right in the Bible, which nobody else has done before! At least we're trying to give you some idea of what it might look like, when up to this time you've had no idea except what you've read in the Bible! And God knows if you even had your proportions straight or ideas straight about that!

103. HOW MANY OF YOU EVER HAD ANY IDEA OF WHAT THE HEAVENLY CITY LOOKED LIKE BEFORE WE BEGAN DESCRIBING & DEPICTING IT TO YOU WAY BACK YONDER IN SOME OF OUR ART & KOMIX? How many of you ever had any idea whatsoever? (Family: They don't read Revelation in the churches!) They're afraid to! They don't understand it, so why should they read it? How could they explain it to people when they don't understand it themselves? How many of you thought it looked like a Pyramid before you ever heard of me or us & the Family in your old church experience? How many of you had any conception of the enormous size, big as Europe or half of America?

104. HOW MANY OF YOU EVER REALLY FIGURED OUT ALL THOSE MEASUREMENTS & LOOKED THEM UP TO SEE WHAT THEY MEANT & HOW BIG THEY WERE? Let me see your hands if you ever did that before you ever read any of my stuff. How many of you ever heard it from the preachers or the churches or religious books or radio or television preachers, anything? Much less how many of you ever saw any pictures of Heaven which relate at all to the actual description? Why not? Well, I kept asking myself that question & I guess the Lord finally got tired of hearing it & He answered! You're going to get it in some vignettes our dear secretary's been collecting of my artist instructions.

105. THE LORD SAID‚ "BECAUSE I RESERVED THIS FOR YOU!" That's the only possible explanation! None of the Masters ever tried it. How many of you have ever seen great masterpieces of art by Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo & some of the greatest art Masters of the ages? How many of you have seen their pictures of Heaven? About the only pictures I ever saw in the Sistine Chapel & a few others is clouds & blue sky & God reaching His hand down out of Heaven & touching Adam with His fingertip! Snap‚ click, pop! Electric spark!—The creation of Adam & some of those things.

106. WELL, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT THE CHURCHES HAVE DONE, THEY'VE TRIED TO BUILD HEAVENLY BUILDINGS, HEAVENLY TEMPLES. They've spent billions & billions & billions building Heavenly cathedrals, trying to bring Heaven down to Earth & show you what they think Heaven looked like by their cathedrals & their beautiful paintings & their windows, etc. But where did they ever really show you a picture of Heaven? We certainly have some little angels around here‚ thank the Lord, & we have a little bit of Heaven right here & now!

107. WE'RE TRYING TO ACCUMULATE A COLLECTION OF ANYTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE HEAVEN‚ & you may run across some very beautiful pictures of flowers, landscapes or lovely gardens, all of which is a sample of what Heaven's going to be like. I know this, that's certainly what the outside Earth looked like. And I've read testimonies of other people who have had dreams or died & came back who saw the same thing. They've said, "It's just going to look like this!" And like I said in our logic the other night, if this is like Heaven, then Heaven is like this!

108. A FUNNY LITTLE JOKE COMES TO ME: IF THIS HADN'T A BEEN'R, WHO'D A BEEN'R? They asked the little girl what her name was & she said, "My name's Whodabeenr!" They'd had about 12 kids already when she came along. They said, "Whodabeenr? What do you mean?" She said, "My Daddy said, when I came along, if I hadn't a been'r, who'd a been'r?" So if this is not it, who'd a been it? You find it for me! You give me some pictures of Heaven! Let's see how much there is in existence, let's see what we can find!

109. I WENT THROUGH 50‚000 OF ALBERT F. PRIEGER'S SLIDES, THE MAIN GERMAN ARTIST FOR THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS‚ & FOUND VERY FEW! I don't think there were more than a half-a-dozen slides in which they even tried to depict Heaven, & mostly it's just a kind of a glory in the sky.—Or even something that looks a little bit like Jerusalem in the sky with some kind of gates that aren't even pearly gates. They just haven't done it!

110. SO I HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT THE LORD SAID, HE'S RESERVED IT FOR US! So if He's reserved this big job for us, please pray for us that we can do a good job of it! Our dear artist was never known as a Michelangelo or a Leonardo da Vinci before‚ but he's going to have to try! And I don't think any of them ever did their masterpieces in such a hurry as we are. They spent years painting them, we're just spending a few weeks! So have a heart & a little sympathy, & if it doesn't look perfect & perfectly divine & Heavenly & out of this World, well, we're doing the best we can. And from the looks of things, it's better than anybody else has done before, as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen any other pictures of Heaven, at least not like ours or as close to the real thing as described in the Bible. So PTL! At least we're trying! It may not be the best, but we try harder! PTL! Praise the Lord for Heaven! Shall we pray? Who'd like to pray? David will pray for us!

111. (DAVID PRAYS: THANK YOU FOR THIS FUN DAY THAT WE HAD TODAY & THANK YOU THAT DADDY GOT TO COME TO DINNER! Bless all the Family around the World & keep our security. And bless this night tonight & help us to have good dreams, in Jesus' name.) Amen! As we pray Thy prayer: (Prays the Lord's Prayer, Ps.19:14 & "Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep.")

112. DO BLESS US & GIVE US A GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP‚ SAFE-KEEPING, STRENGTH FOR TOMORROW & FAITH TO BELIEVE THY WORD, LORD‚ little old nobodies like us trying to tackle such a big job that nobody ever attempted before! Lord, we could almost ask for forgiveness for our presumption if You hadn't laid it on our hearts. You may be amused by our art like a father of a child, but we admire their art & they're doing the best they can & it's beautiful to us‚ because they tried. Like these little pictures that Techi drew tonight. They're beautiful, Lord, & she's trying to depict the beauty that she sees—the flowers, the rainbow & the baby!

113. SO THANK YOU LORD FOR THESE BEAUTIFUL PICTURES OUR CHILDREN DRAW! They're doing the best they can to draw things as beautiful & as pretty as they can, just like we're doing the best we can to draw the beautiful scenes that You've described to us of the place You've gone to prepare for us with all those lovely mansions, our Heavenly abodes of the future! TYJ! PYL! Hallelujah! In Jesus' name, amen! PTL! TYL! (To Techi:) I almost prayed you to sleep! God bless you‚ Honey, I love you! Our drawings may be childish but at least we're trying! Maybe that's a good title: "It may not be the best, but we're trying!"

114. I SAID THIS AFTERNOON, IF ALL THEY'VE GOT TO OFFER FOR ALL ETERNITY IS SITTING ON A CLOUD PLAYING A HARP, THAT'S GOING TO GET PRETTY BORING! If there's not going to be any fun in Heaven‚ what's the use of going there? If Eternal life's no fun, I don't want it! It's gotta be like this & better if we're going to enjoy it! It would sure be a disappointment if it wasn't as much fun as this life, so it's gotta be at least this good, PTL? So if it's gotta be this good, it had better be something like it, only better!

115. (SINGS:)



So if this is like Heaven in our Family,

Then Heaven's like this to me!"

At least we're trying! And if nobody ever tried before, that's better than what they did! I'll be glad when we get there anyhow, then we'll really know! If I get there first, I'll try to send you back some pictures! Maybe the Lord will let me borrow a Brownie & I'll take a few snapshots!

116. THAT LITTLE DISCOURSE TONIGHT IS WHAT THEOLOGIANS CALL "APOLOGETICS." In other words‚ if this hadn't a been'r, who'd a been'r? They go around in some argument & consider all the alternatives to try to prove their point. So now you've got a little apologetics! GBY! I know there's a Heaven, because I can see you!—And you look & feel like Heaven to me!—So I believe Heaven is like this—& you! HAL! PTL! TYJ! GBAKY till we all get there! PTL! (Sings: )

"When we all get to Heaven,

What a day of rejoicing that will be!

When we all see Jesus,

We'll sing & shout the Victory!"

HAL! PYJ! TTL!—That's our Heavenly City!—Is it yours?